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Discussion How are the Current and Last-Gen Systems Going to Hold Up?

Discussion in 'General Game Help & Discussion' started by Spiner202, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. Spiner202

    Spiner202 Ex-Moderator Premium Member

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    I just got home after buying Bloodborne and am waiting for the game to install a 2.7 GB patch. The game hasn't even been out for a week, so I think this is pretty much a day 1 patch. Ignoring the issue of there being no multiplayer once servers get shut down, how will even single player games function once Microsoft/Sony cut support to the last-gen and current-gen systems? Obviously a lot of games will work, whereas others will work but with more bugs and glitches, but doesn't this really take a lot of the fun out of these games (many of which are glitch-ridden even after being patched)? Is an idea like Playstation Now a viable alternative? Or even purchasing past games like you can on the Nintendo stores?

    One of my buddies still has his N64, Gamecube, Wii, and Wii-U hooked up so we can go to pretty much any system at any time. Is this going to become a thing of the past? (Unfortunately it will for us as his Wii is dying; as long as the N64 is good and we can still play Mario Party 3, we're happy!)

    We are also seeing a lot of remastered games coming out. To me, that feels more like a bridge between generations rather than a realistic solution. Sure, the occasional Majora's Mask remake is fun, but I wouldn't go out and buy a ton of remastered games.

    I'm curious to hear everybody's thoughts on what the best solution is, or if there even is one.
     
  2. Tubby23

    Tubby23 Break the Walls Down Premium Member

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    I honestly don't think there is a solution, I think the days of still being able to have a previous generation console still hooked up many years down the track like I do with my N64 are numbered. I don't know what can be done to reverse this but I think with each new generation slowly anything older than a N64 will die off.
     
  3. shortcut

    shortcut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    I still have an NES that works...
     
  4. Apollo

    Apollo Omnipotent Moron Administrator

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    I'm still quite content playing my Atari 2600...

    It's pretty sad that we've reached the 'always online' stage because it does absolutely mean that once these consoles are 'done,' they're essentially just going to be large paperweights. My 360 will still be fine after the fact, and I've got hundreds of games for that to play which don't require an internet connection (same with PS3), but the One and PS4...those will be problematic.
     
  5. Alu Sucks

    Alu Sucks Alu Sucks Alu Sucks Administrator Super Moderator Moderator Premium Member

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    I just sold mine with about 50 or so games. Also sold about 15 N64 games in that deal (no idea why I still had the games but no system for it).

    If I still played games as much as I used to I'd have kept them. I still have the Wii and PS3, but I generally just Netflix the hell out of them. Might do another run through of Portal 2 at some point though, maybe pick up on some of the things I missed out on the first time through.
     
  6. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Super Moderator Premium Member

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    The industry is being run by people my age so a lot of the games that I grew up on and played are now being remastered or trying to be brought back to the forefront because that is what we want. It's nice, but I want to see what happens when kids today take over the industry. There seem to be little or non-existent party type games or games that make you really want to play coop without and internet connection.
     
  7. Madden 07

    Madden 07 Thanks for the memories everyone. Premium Member

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    We've reached the point where convenience has taken over for practicality unfortunately, i.e. being able to download games direct to your console without needing to go buy a disk. It's a shame really, because once the servers get shut down a lot of good games will disappear. I'm thinking more along the lines of XBL Arcade games than the ones that have a physical release as well, it will definitely be interesting to see what happens. Something tells me they're just going to let them all wither away and die though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  8. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Super Moderator Premium Member

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    Thats true about the convenience. On PS4, I have 7 games and only 1 is disc based. I have The Witcher 3 digital preorder as well to add to it. They do install onto the systems but once we get into more cloud based stored games then it could be problematic.

    I mean, eventually in the future my games on the PS4 may not be available to redownload if I need to but that's way off...
     
  9. Kat

    Kat It is now, Kat! Super Moderator

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    Do you think they will really cut off the ability to update older systems as long as the Playstation Network (or the Microsoft equivalent) is still around? I can see them not supporting it otherwise, but I don't see them removing that. A lot of games are unplayable without that first update. I remember one time I bought a PS4 game and it didn't update when I first booted up, and I was so surprised. "A game I can just put in and play? This is just like the good ol' days!" ...Then I tried to play the game. It was literally impossible to finish due to all the bugs. I didn't even get very far before I just gave up on it.

    Maybe if they do remove the ability to update games, there will be some third party supplier of them. I'm sure there will always be some cult following that would be willing to do that, if it's at all possible.
     
  10. Tubby23

    Tubby23 Break the Walls Down Premium Member

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    I doubt Sony or Microsoft will allow a third-party to have the ability to update the games.
     
  11. Spiner202

    Spiner202 Ex-Moderator Premium Member

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    While I think part of it is the age of the people running the industry, I also think it's that remasters are a safe bet. It's the same reason why we see so many sequels instead of new IPs.
     
  12. Gorge

    Gorge Would have robbed the store if Al didnt retire Premium Member

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    Im just know realizing the dozen or so games I got as part of the Games for Gold on XBL probably won't work once XBL on the 360 shuts down...Am I wrong?
     
  13. Warp

    Warp Loves Everything Moderator

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    I feel this is a little too optimistic, unfortunately. Like, if you look at a company such as Atari (note: Current Atari is actually Infogrames; Atari in name only) announcing the resurrection of Asteroids as "an open-world, multiplayer survival game," they're not so much trying to bring back what we want so much as things that were -- and the case of Remasters, still are -- popular, in an effort to get as much attention/money as possible with the least amount of work required. Gaming budgets utterly destroyed the entire middle of the gaming industry in the first half of the last generation, and they've only continued to grow since. That may or may not be the primary reason though, see also: Activision and Guitar Hero.

    I'll never get over the death of couch co-op. To hell with internet-only multiplayer. :(

    It's inevitable, yes. Microsoft already set the precedent by killing off the original Xbox Live servers and marketplace, all of these Remasters are supposed to ease the blow when it happens -- "See, you can still play all of your favorite [super mainstream] series!" -- and the fact that none of this stuff is forward compatible, to the point where if my friend is on PS4 I can't see he's online on my PS3 (but curiously, we can still send text messages via PSN), is just speeding up the process.

    Games for Gold on Xbox 360 isn't like PlayStation Plus (it is on Xbox One, however); once you download something via GfG, it's permanently tied to your account whether you have a current Gold subscription or not. So theoretically as long as the original Xbox 360 you download those games to doesn't die, you can continue to play them forever. Realistically either the Xbox 360 or its hard drive are going to die within the next 5 to 10 years though. :shrug:


    Edit: Oh, right... the actual subject. I don't believe people like me have very much longer to enjoy gaming as a hobby, but for more open-minded folks I don't see things changing very much. More emphasis on mobile device/other inane practices (in-app purchases/microtransactions, Day 1 DLC, mandatory patching to be playable), less or no backwards compatibility in favor of selling Remasters, and a decidedly smaller pool of genres aren't really things your "average gamer" care about. I don't really believe that type of player cares whether they can play Grand Theft Auto IV on their PS3 in 2015 either, much less in 2020 or beyond.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  14. Kat

    Kat It is now, Kat! Super Moderator

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    Agreed. I like that internet multiplayer is an option, but sometimes I have people actually in my house that I want to play with! I'd especially love to be able to hook up two TVs to one PS4 and play multiplayer that way. Why is that not a thing?
    I guess we better get all the games we want and install/update them before that happens for the other systems then.
    Of course they won't "allow" it, but if people have already have the update installed on their hard drive, I can see them figuring out a way to distribute it despite the wishes of Sony or Microsoft.

    I've kind of forgotten why I liked consoles to begin with, honestly. Back in the day, it was useful to play on a big screen, you didn't have to worry about hardware incompatibility, etc. Now it's basically buying multiple versions of (outdated) computers to have access to a few exclusive titles. It feels stupid. I bought every console and handheld last gen, but I don't think I will do that again. Even though it does annoy me to see cool games I don't have the system to play right now...
     
  15. Spectro

    Spectro ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    This generation of consoles has been the weakest we've ever had. We have very few exclusives on machines that couldn't outperform high-end PCs from several years ago.
     
  16. Kat

    Kat It is now, Kat! Super Moderator

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    I actually forgot about the Wii U until I went to buy some new games for my Wii.
     
  17. Warp

    Warp Loves Everything Moderator

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    I think that's more a reflection on how horrible Nintendo of America itself is, given the Wii U has an assortment of games that trump the scraps Sony and Microsoft have managed to offer so far with the PS4 and Xbone.

    Well, if we're taking a purely logical approach to it, it's a matter of hardware limitations and stubborn refusal to scale back with the games themselves. At some point in the last generation we exceeded a graphical and/or area size standard that rendered a lot of games incapable of producing two separate instances of the game (of a certain quality) for use with splitscreen multiplayer; outputting to two fullsize screens is a step beyond that.

    Ball's kinda gotten tossed around a lot since then, but ultimately large publishers would rather sweep things like couch co-op under the rug than have their blockbusters look okay instead of really dull and brown and forgettable amazing. :shake:
     
  18. Spectro

    Spectro ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    Why are they so out of touch?
     
  19. Warp

    Warp Loves Everything Moderator

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    Your guess is as good as anyone's. They fell off the edge completely at the tail end of the Wii's lifecycle, outright refusing to release good first-party games like Xenoblade Chronicles and The Last Story in North America while the console had absolutely nothing on the horizon save death and the billionth Mario Party (10, I think?). Probably still wouldn't have those games without XSEED Games and GameStop stepping up, which is doubly amusing because I believe Xenoblade did better here than in either Japan or Europe.

    They never really bothered to recover after that, at any rate. Two more recent examples are the current situation with the "New" Nintendo 3DS not being released here (only XL model is available), thereby shutting themselves out of the seemingly very lucrative faceplates being sold and/or used for game promotions in Japan and Europe, and of course basically the entire line of Amiibos has been hilariously mishandled from day one.
     
  20. Spectro

    Spectro ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    Embarrassing. They used to be trustworthy.
     
  21. Spiner202

    Spiner202 Ex-Moderator Premium Member

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    I disagree. It does appear that the industry is going incredibly downhill, and a lot of terrible things are happening, but I don't think gaming the way we love it will completely disappear. It's also possible that there will be a ton of backlash as the DLC and microtransactions get worse. In either case, I'm loving gaming as much as ever, even if there are so many things wrong with the industry.

    I read someone once explain it as it has to do with the fact that the guys at the top are very ingrained in their ways, and because they've had success in the past, they keep doing whatever they want.
     
  22. Warp

    Warp Loves Everything Moderator

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    Well yeah, I'm still loving the gaming that I do get -- Catherine, NieR, N+, Tales of Vesperia, and Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood (especially that multiplayer! ;)) were absolutely fantastic experiences last generation -- but I acknowledge that I'm of an extremely stubborn sort and that less and less of that is appearing. With a lot of games I find myself just waiting for the other shoe to drop with some kind of announcement that will spoil my enthusiasm, be it the inclusion of halfassed multiplayer, preorder DLC, Day 1 DLC, or post-release news of the game being at best described as a trainwreck (coughHalo: The Master Chief Collectioncough).

    And a lot of my problem with gaming probably just boils down to Japan repeatedly impaling itself on sharp wooden sticks like your standard Walking Dead zombie, because that right there limits the amount of variety in the console gaming space. And so help me god if Idea Factory announces another Hyperdimension Neptunia game or Koei Tecmo/Gust announces another Atelier game before the end of summer I will cut someone! :-\ ... Even established Japanese franchises have messed the bed; Devil May Cry 4 was pretty fantastic and sold very well, so naturally we got the outsourced DmC: Devil May Cry as a follow-up. Hironobu Sakaguchi gets pushed out of Square, we get the mixed Final Fantasy XII followed several years later by the unbelievably horrendous Final Fantasy XIII trilogy. And now Final Fantasy XV isn't a Final Fantasy game, but rather some reskinned Kingdom Hearts clone -- and they've basically already confirmed at least one sequel, so that's another generation down the drain if it doesn't appeal to me. It's... more than a little infuriating, honestly.

    It's not entirely Japan, though; been waiting for the DLC backlash to happen, and I guess it has in some isolated events, but that train just keeps gaining momentum. Online Passes are thankfully gone, but we're still seeing $30+ Season Passes, and many games still launch feeling incomplete. We get probably the best news of the year with Rock Band 4's announcement and Harmonix working with Sony and Microsoft to grandfather not only our DLC, but our last generation instruments over, followed immediately after by... yup, Activision is bringing Guitar Hero back! That genre's dead before it even gets revived.

    The expanding mainstream audience dictates where things go; I'm resigned to the fact that I just don't want what they want. That's what the backlog is for, I suppose. :chuckle:
     
  23. Fool's Requiem

    Fool's Requiem It's all Ogre now. Premium Member

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    Most multiplayer focused games since the PS2-Xbox-Gamecube-Dreamcast generation are screwed.
    There is pretty much no reason to buy Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for consoles anymore after EA shutdown the servers. Same will go for BF3 and BF4 as they have awful 4 hour long campaigns. The Bad Company games are exempt from this because their campaigns were actually worth playing. Team Fortress 2 on consoles is pointless to play too... but at least you get Portal, and 3 Half Life games with the Orange Box.

    If they continued to allow for LAN and Split-screen play this wouldn't be an issue (like Halo, Perfect Dark, and Goldeneye), same if they had bots for the multiplayer. The Unreal Championship games on the original Xbox are immune from complete damnation because you can play against bots, same goes for Goldeneye, Quake 3, Perfect Dark, Counter Strike, and almost any fighting game; but playing Halo, Rainbow Six, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor multiplayer modes requires other people to play with. Unfortuneately, LAN play, splitscreen play, and multiplayer with bots are becoming few and far between nowadays.

    Most single player focused games or games with great single player campaigns are safe as they don't require servers or other people to continue to play.

    Downloadable games are DOA once those servers are shutdown if you don't already have them downloaded... and Xbox Indie games, well, you might as well say good-bye to your money once the servers with those games on them are taken down as you can not play them offline at all.

    And lets not forget about games that are made better with Co-op play like RE5, Left 4 Dead, and Army of Two. No one plays Left 4 Dead solo, it's not as fun and the AI is terrible, RE5 is supposedly a miserable experience if played solo because of the awful AI for the Sheva character (but at least the game supports splitscreen play), and Army of Two is said to not even be that great a game with two players, much less with only one.

    Also, the way major companies are completely fine with releasing unfinished games that they can just patch later on also screws over players in the future when patches are no longer downloadable.

    All this nonsense is what I moved to PC gaming. Mods, patches that are always available somewhere, and a much more dedicated community to keeping old games playable through workarounds, unofficial patches, and mods.
    Did you know that someone made a mod for the CoD 4 and MW2 that allows you to play multiplayer matches against bots. It takes a bit to get them to work and the AI is kinda dumb, but it's better than whatever BS is happening online (apparently, MW2 is hacker central) and you can play it anywhere you can take your computer, whether or not you have internet. Playing the Winter Crash (aka Christmas Crash) map for CoD4 with working bots on Christmas day when you're hundreds of miles away from home and a stable internet connection is pretty great.
    I fully expect people will find a way to make BF3 playable online after EA's inevitable server shutdown... just like they were able to figure out a way to play MP games that once required the GameSpy service, which is now defunct, to play online.
    You can't do that stuff on consoles.